As we prepare for the transition from B5 to B6, we want to hear directly from you, the players. Our goal is to make this transition as smooth and meaningful as possible, focusing on addressing key areas of improvement. Your insights and experiences are invaluable to shaping the next phase of the game. This will help us focus on the more prevelant needs, as they will all be in one forum.
We’d love your feedback on the following:
1. **What are the top gameplay issues or frustrations in B5 right now?**
These could be anything that stands out to you as broken, unfun, or just not working as intended. Your personal experiences and priorities are what we’re looking for, so don’t worry about trying to be comprehensive or “objective.”
2. **How would you improve these issues?**
Share any ideas or suggestions for addressing the problems you’ve highlighted. While we may not be able to completely overhaul systems, creative and realistic solutions are always welcome!
If you have posted somthing previously you beleive falls under these questions in the forums please post the link with a short sentence on what it is.
This isn’t a formal vote, but rather a chance for you to share your perspective and help us focus on areas that matter most to the community. Thank you for being part of the process as we continue to improve the game together!
B5 to B6 Pain Points
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Jelly_m00n
- Posts: 51
- Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2022 11:44 pm
- Contact:
Re: B5 to B6 Pain Points
I think one of my biggest problems with PMs is their inability to use their pets against NPCs currently. I understand NPCs will probably not be introduced at B6 start, but will most likely be introduced as the breath progresses. My suggestion is that Titan pets (assuming they and pets in general aren't reworked significantly) can target NPCs.
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GreatCatatonic
- Posts: 41
- Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2021 3:07 am
Re: B5 to B6 Pain Points
Fairly minor complaints on my part;I've been quite pleased with this Breath.
- The ease of solo raiding - I think it's no secret that some classes are a bit overtuned, but I feel characters shouldn't normally be able to break a ward AND kill half a dozen people inside in an AP cycle. Solo wardbreaking is fine; I wouldn't want to have to coordinate recaps with someone else if I'm a combat class, but I'd expect the basher to be mostly tuckered out after that. I'd suggest pushing bash buffs over to spellcasters try to require more balanced raid teams, but some of the solo raiders are already spellcasters, so maybe just remove them altogether if the classes' outputs are already high enough?
- Enchanted weapons - I was one of the biggest champions of nerfing enchantments, and I would still prefer to see innates (and mundanes!) be on par with them, but I recognize that the nerf hit a little too hard. Even if the numbers still work out, the convoluted nature of employing them killed most of my desire to use them. Activation is a great idea, but I found myself wanting my MP for other things slightly more. Perhaps lowering the activation cost would help that, but I think the main obstacle to their use were the comparable innates that most classes had. Maybe stripping some of those would push certain classes to be expected to use enchanted weapons and keep the market for their enchanters consistent.
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sohdbrimks
- Posts: 74
- Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2021 2:49 am
Re: B5 to B6 Pain Points
1) Pet decay
I wish all petmasters worked similar to the Ele with a cap and no decay, liches could have a much higher cap for ghouls/skellies like 30 for example (both pets would share the same cap)
2) Weapons are useless?
I didn't use mundane weapons this breath but they seen pretty weak compared to innate attacks and spells
I think the strength should be balanced by how much prep the weapon takes, for example:
- mundane weapons: weakest, but any mortal can fix/use with the appropirate skills
- innate attacks/spells: a bit stronger than mundane weapons (like +2 or 3 damage and exotic damage type), balanced by only being available to spellcasters (in the case of spells) or certain classes (for innate attacks)
- enchanted weapons: strongest, but need to enchanted, suffer from decay etc
3) Map size
While this breath the map was a pretty good size, I tend to favor smaller maps so people are more likely to run into each other etc. While it is interesting to have some remote places I don't like too many of them. My least favorite parts of this map are both Shrek ears in Cord and a lot of Purg in general.
I wish all petmasters worked similar to the Ele with a cap and no decay, liches could have a much higher cap for ghouls/skellies like 30 for example (both pets would share the same cap)
2) Weapons are useless?
I didn't use mundane weapons this breath but they seen pretty weak compared to innate attacks and spells
I think the strength should be balanced by how much prep the weapon takes, for example:
- mundane weapons: weakest, but any mortal can fix/use with the appropirate skills
- innate attacks/spells: a bit stronger than mundane weapons (like +2 or 3 damage and exotic damage type), balanced by only being available to spellcasters (in the case of spells) or certain classes (for innate attacks)
- enchanted weapons: strongest, but need to enchanted, suffer from decay etc
3) Map size
While this breath the map was a pretty good size, I tend to favor smaller maps so people are more likely to run into each other etc. While it is interesting to have some remote places I don't like too many of them. My least favorite parts of this map are both Shrek ears in Cord and a lot of Purg in general.
Re: B5 to B6 Pain Points
Personally I think the map sizes were pretty spot on. Having a nice variety in map size is pretty important. Cordy and Purg are the largest, then you have Elysium and Stygia being smaller and comparable in size, then Centrum, Carousel, Pocket Spaces, and class specific planes. If you go small on the main planes, it makes it harder to get variety on the other ancillary planes imo.
Re: B5 to B6 Pain Points
What are the top gameplay issues or frustrations in B5 right now?
How would you improve these issues?
1. Petmaster interactions (lack of) with NPCs
Missing out on opportunities for violence / XP / infusion is a big hit to gameplay and functionality. I suspect most summoners will identify this as an issue. Fixing it could be challenging as NPC attacks may trigger pets which may trigger NPC attacks until the Nexus disappears into a singularity of violence.
2. NPC builds / AI
Their builds should be better. And NPCs should react a little more than they do e.g. if a demon is killed in a building occupied by ten other demons, all ten should begin attacking the killer on the pet tick and not stop until the AP tick.
3. Innates vs weapons imbalance, factional imbalance
Transcended - innate HTH, Melee, Thrown - no innate Archery, Firearms
Angels - innate HTH, Melee, Thrown, Archery, Firearms,
Demons - innate HTH, Melee, Thrown, Archery - no innate Firearms
In addition to lack of options for Transcended (and arguably no good Firearms options for Demons) there are a severe lack of weapons booster skills for many of the classes. The most egregious example is the ES rendered pretty useless with swords, bows and guns, but it applies to the VW too (I want my Devil's Right Hand as suggested many moons ago). Were it not for the Lychwood Arms Company I'd have given up on weapons in B5. Balancing should be a matter of laying out a spreadsheet and comparing possible end-stage accuracy / damage for class vs weapon of choice vs innate of choice.
4. Imbalance within classes
Certain classes have solid choices in builds, others have one that is better than others (e.g. HTH Revenant vs Melee Revenant), and some have One True Way from which you stray at your peril (the glory of Fallen Heretic vs the pain of Fallen Oathbreaker). B6 needs to take the baseline from B5 and make classes properly multifunctional for the key goals of the Nexus; factional warfare and NPC murder.
5. Enchantments
Great for defense and soak on armour. Terrible for weapon damage and accuracy. Add decay on top. They're only of practical use for the enchanter rather than end users. And enchanted weapons are still outclassed by innates.
Good Stuff!
1. Map design
Took a while to warm to the map designs but generally they are good, functional with defined areas and transport connections. Thematically well-thought-through too.
2. Events
Special events integrated into the game make a big difference, be it recurring Carousel Station or seasonal Wintertide / Haunted Mansion.
3. Buyback
Buyback is just one of many positive uplift to the user experience. The changes to functionality such that players have agency instead of relying solely on admins is a literal game changer. It allows experimentation, it helps when things go wrong.
4. Classes that worked...
Of the ones I've tried out: Conduit, Wizard (Spells, Spellwand, Firearms), Revenant (HTH), Eternal Soldier (HTH), Elementalist, Seraph (Melee), Holy Champion, IB (HTH or Melee), Doom Howler (Thrown)
5. ...and classes that didn't work so well
Of the ones I've tried out: Nexus Chump (Thrown), Oathbreaker Fallen (Firearms),
How would you improve these issues?
1. Petmaster interactions (lack of) with NPCs
Missing out on opportunities for violence / XP / infusion is a big hit to gameplay and functionality. I suspect most summoners will identify this as an issue. Fixing it could be challenging as NPC attacks may trigger pets which may trigger NPC attacks until the Nexus disappears into a singularity of violence.
2. NPC builds / AI
Their builds should be better. And NPCs should react a little more than they do e.g. if a demon is killed in a building occupied by ten other demons, all ten should begin attacking the killer on the pet tick and not stop until the AP tick.
3. Innates vs weapons imbalance, factional imbalance
Transcended - innate HTH, Melee, Thrown - no innate Archery, Firearms
Angels - innate HTH, Melee, Thrown, Archery, Firearms,
Demons - innate HTH, Melee, Thrown, Archery - no innate Firearms
In addition to lack of options for Transcended (and arguably no good Firearms options for Demons) there are a severe lack of weapons booster skills for many of the classes. The most egregious example is the ES rendered pretty useless with swords, bows and guns, but it applies to the VW too (I want my Devil's Right Hand as suggested many moons ago). Were it not for the Lychwood Arms Company I'd have given up on weapons in B5. Balancing should be a matter of laying out a spreadsheet and comparing possible end-stage accuracy / damage for class vs weapon of choice vs innate of choice.
4. Imbalance within classes
Certain classes have solid choices in builds, others have one that is better than others (e.g. HTH Revenant vs Melee Revenant), and some have One True Way from which you stray at your peril (the glory of Fallen Heretic vs the pain of Fallen Oathbreaker). B6 needs to take the baseline from B5 and make classes properly multifunctional for the key goals of the Nexus; factional warfare and NPC murder.
5. Enchantments
Great for defense and soak on armour. Terrible for weapon damage and accuracy. Add decay on top. They're only of practical use for the enchanter rather than end users. And enchanted weapons are still outclassed by innates.
Good Stuff!
1. Map design
Took a while to warm to the map designs but generally they are good, functional with defined areas and transport connections. Thematically well-thought-through too.
2. Events
Special events integrated into the game make a big difference, be it recurring Carousel Station or seasonal Wintertide / Haunted Mansion.
3. Buyback
Buyback is just one of many positive uplift to the user experience. The changes to functionality such that players have agency instead of relying solely on admins is a literal game changer. It allows experimentation, it helps when things go wrong.
4. Classes that worked...
Of the ones I've tried out: Conduit, Wizard (Spells, Spellwand, Firearms), Revenant (HTH), Eternal Soldier (HTH), Elementalist, Seraph (Melee), Holy Champion, IB (HTH or Melee), Doom Howler (Thrown)
5. ...and classes that didn't work so well
Of the ones I've tried out: Nexus Chump (Thrown), Oathbreaker Fallen (Firearms),
Re: B5 to B6 Pain Points
I'll add in that I wish there were less of a discrepancy between mobile vs comp vs hotkey users. In a live fight scenario, or a chase, the winner is a forgone conclusion just based on their speed. When I see some players, I already know that by the time I recognize the name, pick what attack/spell I need to use, and attack, I'm already dead because they've done a dozen attacks already.
Suggestion: Disable hotkeys. There will still be a wide range of player response times, but hotkeys seem like too much. Alternatively, increase the min time between inputs you're allowed to give.
I'm also not a fan of the pet dance (I admit, I am particularly bad at it). It seems imbalanced that someone can hop into a square full of pets, get off multiple AOEs, and then get out all without a single pet attacking them, and then repeat that over and over. It also seems not very flavorful to be able to run past the wandering pets/minibosses/crabs and keep an eye on the real world time to know if it's safe or not.
Suggestion: Have the pet tick happen at a random interval that averages every 10 seconds, but isn't actually predictable. Or, have a random chance for a player to trigger an extra pet tick when entering a square.
Suggestion: Disable hotkeys. There will still be a wide range of player response times, but hotkeys seem like too much. Alternatively, increase the min time between inputs you're allowed to give.
I'm also not a fan of the pet dance (I admit, I am particularly bad at it). It seems imbalanced that someone can hop into a square full of pets, get off multiple AOEs, and then get out all without a single pet attacking them, and then repeat that over and over. It also seems not very flavorful to be able to run past the wandering pets/minibosses/crabs and keep an eye on the real world time to know if it's safe or not.
Suggestion: Have the pet tick happen at a random interval that averages every 10 seconds, but isn't actually predictable. Or, have a random chance for a player to trigger an extra pet tick when entering a square.
Re: B5 to B6 Pain Points
On the subject of hotkeys: I would like to retain the not-combat hotkeys for the purposes of grinding. I don't think anyone is likely to suffer from my hotkey-enhanced real-time electrical engineering (in-game). Same goes for my amazing target shooting. Oh noes, beware my overpowered hatchet-flinging.
Re: B5 to B6 Pain Points
Totally fair. Maybe even add more of the single press shortcuts? I appreciate "Search x5". Would "Remove and Restore Power" or "Drink all booze in inventory" or things like that be valuable?larvacea wrote: ↑Sat Jan 25, 2025 5:08 am On the subject of hotkeys: I would like to retain the not-combat hotkeys for the purposes of grinding. I don't think anyone is likely to suffer from my hotkey-enhanced real-time electrical engineering (in-game). Same goes for my amazing target shooting. Oh noes, beware my overpowered hatchet-flinging.
Re: B5 to B6 Pain Points
On the subject of mobile experience, the fact that nexus tweaks broke really cut into my desire to play some of my classes. Integrating some of the UI features from tweaks, namely the easier alchemy pane and the friendly target filtering on the attack menu would improve my mobile experience quite a bit.